Cactus to Clouds / Skyline Trail, Palm Springs, CA

[EskimoPIe]

How about we bring some of those Tarahumara runners here and see how they'd do? I also wonder about the psychology behind all this record-setting. That alone ought to be worth a study. One thing IS a fact: You guys are impressive.

[2/26/14 FKT]

NOAA called for 100% chance of precipitation in San Diego County; it was time to head east and run in the desert.

***


I woke early on February the 26th. Clear skies and cool temps in the valley (5AM Palm Springs).


I didn't preview Skyline Trail (Cactus to Clouds) but had read trip reports, studied the route, and recently run a similar profile, which can be found here: www.trailrunnermag.com/component/content/article/120-adventure/832-haleakala-the-fast-way



***

Alive, inspired, and getting cold near the Tram Station.


2/26/14 @ approx. 6:45AM


Recollection of the run in segments:

Segment 1: Why are there so many spur trails? Am I on pace? This is a steep hill. I feel heavy.

Segment 2: I'm dropping south off the ridge towards a valley. Why am I dropping? Effort spikes, angry pace ensues, tempo is found.

Segment 3: It's leveling off a bit, is it supposed to level off this much? Mad pace continues. I find flow near the 1:15 mark.

Segment 4: It's steep again. Heavy legs. I fall.

Segment 5: Around the 2hr mark, after rock pillar. A glimpse of the tram! "Pick-up-your-feet. You must be close."

Segment 6: Climb after the traverse; I'm not that close.

Segment 7: Cold. Low blood sugar. (Upper tram station)

Segment 8: (Lower tram station) Sierra Nevada on draft. You can read minds? "Wait, I have to walk 4 miles down to the highway to catch a bus?"

Segment 9: Walked 4 miles to HWY, hitch hiked, got picked up by a very cool couple from Canada; THANK YOU (if you're reading this).

***

SPUR TRAILS:
The number of off-ramps down low and mid-route are a deterrent. Had a person done recon and previous attempts for time on the route-->beneficial short cuts are likely available. Stumbling into cactus land on an off-ramp and having to push on or re-trace; not fast or efficient. These detours did nothing but break rhythm and tempo.

HIGHS:
-Accessibility: The aesthetics of gaining over 8,000ft in such a short distance, at a route so accessible, in and of itself is enough to get stoked and hopefully inspire folks to go after this time. If you come from winterland and you trail run--Idylwilde is a good mountain town hub/launch pad with plenty of trails.

-Tram: Going super hard and thinking "base to summit" and not "base-summit-base" allows a person to go light and fast. Light and fast is fun.

LOWS:
The route: I like that there are not a lot of markers yet at the same time, this is a high traffic trail with many novice hikers going up for an hour (max) then turning around; more blatant signage down low for the gumbies might help the spur trail problem. -->spurt trails up on the ridge: I'd be willing to bet are by fast local hikers-->it's your backyard-->who am I to say where to and not to go?

Weather: noaa.gov
-High of 79dF (Valley Floor)
-43dF (Tram Station)
-Recent Rain/precip-->none-->no ice
-Snow level: not an issue this year
*Weather is like a river; dynamic and never the same. Please do not assume that my listed gear below will work for a person under similar circumstances.


Gear:
-Top: La Sportiva Persuit Race Tank
-Bottom: La Sportiva Race Short
-Feet: La Sportiva C-Lite 2.0
-Cargo: Ultimate Direction Fastdraw 20 + Camelback Delany Race (bottle hip belt)
-Micro Spikes: left them in the car
Emergency Burrito (strapped to Delany Race belt)
-Petzl e+Lite
-Storm Pass Pro ST wind/rain coat
-Novara arm warmers
-Turtle Fur beanie
-Nike run gloves
-Cell phone
Run nutrition:
-Bonk Breaker BP&J bar
-One bottle electrolyte drink + one bottle water (only dusted one bottle)
-PowerBar Cola Gummies (did not use)


Pre run PM nutrition:
-Serria Nevada Torpedo IPA (x3)
-Papa Johns Vegetarian Pizza w/meat prepped at hostel (x1)
-Almond M&M’s; the large bag (of course)
AM Pre-Run:
-Last slice of pizza


Logistics: I didn't think them through. Had to hitchhike back to Palm Springs after walking four miles from lower tram/drop off down to HWY 111. Would advise dropping a bike at lower tram pre-run, driving to start, then riding back to car/TH post run. Winds seem to blow south while I was there so it'd be at your back and a good spin out for the loaded legs.

Splits:
:13 Picnic tables
:29 (Rescue Station #1)
1:01 (marked rock cairn)
1:28 (Rescue Station #2)
1:40 (Flat Rock)
2:03 (Rock Pillar, lookers right)
2:21 (Grubs Sign) *just before tram (approx 2:20)

2:26 Tram Station (Base of stairs)

[andrewfast]

All,

I ran to the tram station.

Below is bits of a full trip report from here: www.endsunknown.blogspot.com

I woke early on February the 26th. Clear skies and cool temps in the valley (5AM Palm Springs).


I didn't preview Skyline Trail (Cactus to Clouds) but had read trip reports, studied the route, and recently run a similar profile, which can be found here: www.trailrunnermag.com/component/content/article/120-adventure/832-haleakala-the-fast-way


***

Alive, inspired, and getting cold near the Tram Station.

2/26/14 @ approx. 6:45AM


Recollection of the run in segments:

Segment 1: Why are there so many spur trails? Am I on pace? This is a steep hill. I feel heavy.

Segment 2: I'm dropping south off the ridge towards a valley. Why am I dropping? Effort spikes, angry pace ensues, tempo is found.

Segment 3: It's leveling off a bit, is it supposed to level off this much? Mad pace continues. I find flow near the 1:15 mark.

Segment 4: It's steep again. Heavy legs. I fall.

Segment 5: Around the 2hr mark, after rock pillar. A glimpse of the tram! "Pick-up-your-feet. You must be close."

Segment 6: Climb after the traverse; I'm not that close.

Segment 7: Cold. Low blood sugar. (Upper tram station)

Segment 8: (Lower tram station) Sierra Nevada on draft. You can read minds? "Wait, I have to walk 4 miles down to the highway to catch a bus?"

Segment 9: Walked 4 miles to HWY, hitch hiked, got picked up by a very cool couple from Canada; THANK YOU (if you're reading this).

***

SPUR TRAILS:
The number of off-ramps down low and mid-route are a deterrent. Had a person done recon and previous attempts for time on the route-->beneficial short cuts are likely available. Stumbling into cactus land on an off-ramp and having to push on or re-trace; not fast or efficient. These detours did nothing but break rhythm and tempo.

HIGHS:
-Accessibility: The aesthetics of gaining over 8,000ft in such a short distance, at a route so accessible, in and of itself is enough to get stoked and hopefully inspire folks to go after this time. If you come from winterland and you trail run--Idylwilde is a good mountain town hub/launch pad with plenty of trails.

-Tram: Going super hard and thinking "base to summit" and not "base-summit-base" allows a person to go light and fast. Light and fast is fun.

LOWS:
The route: I like that there are not a lot of markers yet at the same time, this is a high traffic trail with many novice hikers going up for an hour (max) then turning around; more blatant signage down low for the gumbies might help the spur trail problem. -->spurt trails up on the ridge: I'd be willing to bet are by fast local hikers-->it's your backyard-->who am I to say where to and not to go?

Weather: noaa.gov
-High of 79dF (Valley Floor)
-43dF (Tram Station)
-Recent Rain/precip-->none-->no ice
-Snow level: not an issue this year
*Weather is like a river; dynamic and never the same. Please do not assume that my listed gear below will work for a person under similar circumstances.


Gear:
-Top: La Sportiva Persuit Race Tank
-Bottom: La Sportiva Race Short
-Feet: La Sportiva C-Lite 2.0
-Cargo: Ultimate Direction Fastdraw 20 + Camelback Delany Race (bottle hip belt)
-Micro Spikes: left them in the car
Emergency Burrito (strapped to Delany Race belt)
-Petzl e+Lite
-Storm Pass Pro ST wind/rain coat
-Novara arm warmers
-Turtle Fur beanie
-Nike run gloves
-Cell phone
Run nutrition:
-Bonk Breaker BP&J bar
-One bottle electrolyte drink + one bottle water (only dusted one bottle)
-PowerBar Cola Gummies (did not use)


Pre run PM nutrition:
-Serria Nevada Torpedo IPA (x3)
-Papa Johns Vegetarian Pizza w/meat prepped at hostel (x1)
-Almond M&M’s; the large bag (of course)
AM Pre-Run:
-Last slice of pizza


Logistics: I didn't think them through. Had to hitchhike back to Palm Springs after walking four miles from lower tram/drop off down to HWY 111. Would advise dropping a bike at lower tram pre-run, driving to start, then riding back to car/TH post run. Winds seem to blow south while I was there so it'd be at your back and a good spin out for the loaded legs.


Splits:
:13 Picnic tables
:29 (Rescue Station #1)
1:01 (marked rock cairn)
1:28 (Rescue Station #2)
1:40 (Flat Rock)
2:03 (Rock Pillar, lookers right)
2:21 (Grubs Sign) *just before tram (approx 2:20)

2:26 Tram Station (Base of stairs)

[Swiz]

is the FKT 2:21 by Brett Maune on 12-13-12 or Andrews' 2:26 - I'm confused

[andrewfast]

All,

I apologize for the confusion, once again proving my lack of tech savy-ness; I didn't realize there were more pages to this thread (hence the double post of the same thing above). I didn't think the post posted as I couldn't see it and was going off the FKT Brett listed on page 1 (2:32).

As a side and to echo Peter and Brett's comments on how best to report times on a peak with increasing traffic and times coming down:

-There is a trail, though sometimes fickle, that goes from the Museum to the station; it is maintained and mapped.
-Like most peaks, there are also more direct lines a person can choose to take

Similar to the evolution of the Longs FKT as described by Peter, some folks may choose to go for time on the trail for various reasons, others may go for the most direct line; both are awesome and come with their own set of challenges; records are meant to be broken; my hope is that these threads inspire folks to get out there and push themselves; perhaps this is a good juncture to keep both FKTs alive; keep track of both. But that is just one perspective, undoubtedly others exist.

Again, sorry for any confusion.

[Peter Bakwin]

I have tired to summarize the C2C2C and Skyline Trail FKTs at the top of the thread. Please let me know if you find any errors. I'm not familiar with the area, so the information has been a little confusing. Thanks!

[andrejs]

Dec 15, 2013 16:56:19 GMT -5 Peter Bakwin said:

With this route seeing more activity, and the times coming down, it would be good to carry a gps & provide the track for verification.

I'm surprised there's no GPS data for these attempts..

[Brett Maune]

Yesterday I did the full C2C2C route. The main objective was to re-establish an FKT for the “SoCal Triple Crown” using all car-to-car routes (C2C2C, Vivian Creek, Bear Flats) but I stopped after summiting San Jacinto and San Gorgonio. The trip was planned at the last minute. On Tuesday I noticed how unusually cool the forecast was for Wednesday (Palm Springs high of 84 and a chance of snow showers on all the summits!) and decided to take advantage of the opportunity.

I started at 5:33 AM. About 15 minutes into the run I got a pleasant surprise. I encountered a group of three hikers and realized I knew the lead female hiker. Many years ago she generously gave me a ride from the tram station back to my car. Amazingly this was the third time we have crossed paths even though I have done the Skyline portion only ~8 times. She has done it many, many more times…

The second coincidence of the run was that I think I struck the same cactus as I did the last time I ascended Skyline. Unlike the previous encounter, this wasn’t an all-out effort up San Jacinto and so I stopped and spent the few minutes to pull out as many spines as I could. On the way back down I struck two more cacti. This is becoming a painful habit of mine.

Regarding the route, I tried staying on the main trail as much as possible. For the ascent in many places people have placed rocks to mark the secondary trails. When descending one does not see these markings when the trails diverge and so it is essentially impossible in many places to know which trail to take.

Lastly, descending back down to Palm Springs is a serious affair and should not be taken lightly. People have died doing that. Even with the cool temperatures (by Palm Springs standards) I was moderately dehydrated by the time I got back down. When I got to my car I drank a half-gallon carton of orange juice and I don’t think that was quite enough to fully rehydrate me.

The splits:
1:45 Flat Rock
2:28 Grubbs Notch
3:39:54 Summit
4:34 Grubbs Notch
5:00 Flat Rock
6:16:54 TH

[Robert Hunt]

Way to go Brett! I have considerably lowered my time on this route since posting my TR but was under no illusion of being the fastest. I'm amazed at how quickly you were able to get from the notch to summit to notch. Great run.
-Robert

[Nickademus Hollon]

Wow! Impressive time Brett! Great job, I think you would have killed the SoCal Triple crown had you continued! It's nice to see you back at it

[Brett Maune]

Robert--Thanks. The trail from the notch to the summit is quite runnable. Although it was much longer than I remembered (My stomach sank when I saw the sign just beyond the ranger station stating 5.5 miles), it was also much flatter as well. I was able to run most of it. Plus, the weather at the top was perfect which helped. The ranger station thermometer read ~37 degrees!

Nick--Thanks. It is great to be able to participate in the FKT games again. I admit I got a bit emotional during the ascent when I realized the splits were coming in close to my previous set. In the end though I stopped because of lingering back issues, but I think it is getting better.

[desertskyclimber]

Have been running skyline since '04, welcome... average c2c time 3 hours...and then back down.

[Truth]

silly ego's, become that which you Are, and time is but a tool of the mind.

[Vitalis]

Times on snow creek route, also know as the north face of San Jacinto?

[BB]

I've done Snow Creek - gate to Summit sign - in 5:35, but I imagine an hour could be shaved off that time at least without stops for pictures and marginally better route finding.