Just to follow up. I made it to Tehachapi (mile 540) and decided to call it quits due to tedonosis in my extensor hallicus. I averaged 41 miles a day for 13 days, and then things turned on me. There are a number of things I should have done differently, but it was a solid learning experience and I hope to give it a shot again in the near future.
I cruise these boards like once a year. Nice to see Krud still holding down the old guard in typical curmudgeonly fashion. For the love of god, though, stop talking about my PCT trip. It's been 5 years and 5 (?) successful record attempts by others since I was a part of this world (except for 30 miles with Joe Mcconaughy a few years back, where I definitely slowed him down. That kid is unreal). This has always been clear, but just to restate since you seem confused: I do not claim to have completed the PCT - I do not claim any speed record whatsoever on the PCT - I have never claimed ether of these things. I took one detour for a fire on the west side of Mt. Hood (the detour covered more mileage than the trail section I skipped - approx 47 miles of missed trail - though was almost entirely on paved or graded roads). I officially and quite publicly abandoned my speed record attempt at Ebbetts Pass due to an impending snow storm that ended up dropping up to 40 inches in the highest parts of the Sierra. At that point I decided to fill my time running from Badwater to Whitney Summit because I thought it would be cool. I was right, it was awesome! After which I hopped back on the trail at Walker Pass and wound my way to Campo. Whether or not you believe it, I was really only chasing the record in the first place in an attempt to drum up public attention to raise money for The Michael J Fox Foundation (my mom has Parkinson's, you see), and despite rubbing some people the wrong way - mostly Krud! - it worked. The trip raised $300,000 for a cause that is extremely important to me. In fact, my run led to a job at the Michael J Fox Foundation, where over the last 5 years, I have essentially been an adventure athlete that runs and bikes and climbs for donations. It has been rewarding and meaningful and extremely fun (all the things that most people feel when they experience the outdoors) and the projects I've led have raised an additional $3 million in that time. Thanks to my experience with Krud specifically I haven't even thought about chasing any FKTs (not that I could even come close to touching what Joe did 2 summers back!) since hitting the Mexican border in 2011. Its a real shame, and a surprise, that someone like Krud, who seems to spend a lot of time experiencing awesome adventures in beautiful places can be so consistently surly and unsupportive of other people's highly similar interests.
General disrespect for supported attempts ("those guys don't belong out there if they can't do it BY THEMSELVES") is a common refrain for you. And that's fine. There is of course a large difference between supported and unsupported trips. But don't you get tired of forcing people to prove they didn't bum a granola bar off some nice lady out for a day hike? Nit picking and s#!tting on everybody else's experience out there but yours and Bink's (who by the way was so proud to hold the speed record with you that he went out and broke it a year later without you) isn't a good look. If this world of PCT FKT gets you so riled up, maybe you should stay off the boards... And for the record, having made a supported record attempt in earnest, I can say the most difficult part was being ALONE. For me, no speed record should be called "unsupported" if you get to hike with your buddy every day. 2 Alarm clocks, an encouraging voice, an extra pack to hold your water when you're struggling and vice versa... I don't know, sounds pretty supported to me.
But I'm not here to redefine arbitrary terms. Just here to pick a scab that's 5 years old. Your words during the summer/fall of 2011 put tears in my Mom's eyes on more than one occasion. That always pissed me off. I'm pretty confident that you're generally an unhappy person, so I've let it go. But here we are 5 years later and you're still writing - hence the response.
Now that that's out of the way, I want to wish you many more years of bad ass adventures, I wish you more FKTs if you're still in the game, I wish you incredible hidden tentsites by mountain lakes, and I also wish that you learn the ability to allow others to enjoy nature and challenge themselves the way they see fit, even if it doesn't fit within your rigid parameters.
I will be attempting to hike the Pacific Crest Trail SOBO (Canada to Mexico) in 59 days, beginning August 9th. I will be a solo thru-hiker, walking monument to monument with a continuous footpath. I will walk into and out of towns taking the same route and will not ride in a car. I will have a SPOT GPS device to track my coordinates and this data will be released when the adventure is completed. In the case of closures, I will be hiking the alternate routes.
Huge thank you to everyone who took the time to answer my questions! Specifically, Heather "Anish" Anderson, Ryan "Tuna Helper" Weidert, Jen Pharr Davis, Joey Camps, Andy Bentz, and The Hiking Viking. I have so much respect and admiration for these individuals, as well as for Scott Williamson, Karel Sabbe, Joe McConaughy, Sam Fox, Swiz, David Mitchell, and all other people out there getting after it, whatever "it" means to them!
I'm really looking forward to walking on the PCT again and most definitely getting my butt kicked.
Carly Moree / Poptart / Papi
“You cannot stay on the summit forever; you have to come down again. So why bother in the first place? Just this: What is above knows what is below, but what is below does not know what is above. One climbs, one sees. One descends, one sees no longer, but one has seen. There is an art of conducting oneself in the lower regions by the memory of what one saw higher up. When one can no longer see, one can at least still know.” - René Daumal
At 5:40 a.m. on July 16, 2016 Travis Liles, Scott Loughney, and I (Yassine Diboun) set out for the Supported FKT of the Oregon PCT (South to North). The fastest supported time for the Oregon section that I could find was by Joe McConaughy (who did the entire PCT supported). His Oregon split was 8 days and 19 hours. I contacted him and let him know what we were attempting.
We did this Oregon PCT Project for charity and you can learn more about it at: www.OregonPCTproject.com and search #orPCTrun on instagram and facebook. There is a 30-minute movie being made about our attempt and will be available soon at www.StevenMortinson.com . That being said, we have many witnesses to our adventure and can verify our time.
We finished at the border of Washington in 8 days 12 hours and 5 minutes, and as far as we know, we hold the FKT for the state of Oregon (Supported).
Wanted to give an update from my unsupported FKT attempt - I started my hike on August 10th. On day 23 I reached Callahan's in the afternoon and was planning on reaching the California / Oregon border that night. However, due to the fire near Seiad Valley, the PCT was closed and no alternate was in place. Flower and I attempted to create our own alternate but did not feel safe. We ended up skipping the 60 miles between Ashland and Seiad Valley. Overall I had an incredible experience, one that I am still processing. Another time!
I was able to meet Karel Sabbe on day 2 of my hike near Stehekin landing. Congratulations Karel on your huge accomplishment!!! Every hiker I met who had spoken with Karel during their thru-hike had only positive things to say about him, and that he always took the time to stop and talk to everyone and showed everyone kindness, despite his record attempt. I think that in and of itself is just as big of an accomplishment.
Also - If anyone plans on attempting the unsupported FKT in the future, I would be more than happy to share my resupply strategies, etc.
Post by Peter Bakwin on Sept 14, 2016 9:19:50 GMT -5
Yassine, I'm confused about your OR PCT thing. Above (first post in this thread) it is reported that Brian Donnelly did the OR PCT in 7d22h37m (August 9-17, 2013). You were involved in that trip, so I think you must know more about it than I do. Is there an error? Thanks! PB
Post by Clint Cummins on Sept 14, 2016 19:24:38 GMT -5
Since they describe unsuccessfully trying to beat Brian's time in their blog, it appears they are claiming a FKT in the supported category, with Brian's self-supported FKT as a separate category. So it's just a matter of what you want to include in the summary first post. Maybe something like how supported efforts have not bettered the self-supported FKT?
Not a new FKT, but definitely worth mentioning that Flower just finished up her sobo hike in 67 days, continuing with a strong pace even after an FKT was off the table as a result of being pushed off the PCT due to a large fire as Papi detailed above. Well done!
Post by Eli Zabielski on Oct 20, 2016 12:07:41 GMT -5
The lack of standards over what version of the PCT you need to walk to claim a record is only going to cause more controversy in the future since there are now several long standing closures in Socal. If an FKTer walks through these closures they are not only (1) disobeying the rules about the trail being closed, and also, (2) those closed areas are not maintained any not travelled and are going to be significantly harder to travel.
In Socal there are at least 3 closures that have existed for 3-4 or more years: 1. Mountain Fire closure near Idyllwild (mile ~155), closed after a fire in 2013, probably not going to be rebuilt till 2018. Currently most hikers do a road detour that is significantly shorter, though there is a longer purist detour on alternate trails and some paved and dirt roads. I think it ends up about the same mileage. 2. Endagered Species closure near Wrightwood (mile ~390), closed to protect the habitat of an endangered frog. Not sure when it was closed but I think it's been about 10 years now. Most hikers road walk the highway through this area, which cuts off some distance and elevation gain. There is also a longer purist's detour on alternate trails. 3. Powerhouse Closure near the Andersons (mile ~490), closed for a fire. Closed for a few years now. Currently hikers either road walk to hikertown, or road walk part of the way and take a side trail back to the PCT.
As we saw this year, there were some additional closures for the season that made it even more complicated. Basically right from the southern terminus, Karel was road walking around an active fire near Campo. This road walk saved him some miles and he was about a half day or more up on Stringbean/Joe by the end of the first day. Later he skipped around the fire closure near Big Bear. Assuming Karel took the normal detours for the three closures above (someone can check his Strava to verify this), he took five detours, and he only took a day off the record.
In the case of disobeying the rules, I think FKTers should be held to some ethical standard that they are going to leave as little trace as possible during their entire record attempt, whether they are on the official trail, a closed area, or a detour. The ethics of preserving the PCT as much as possible should probably trump the ego driven ethics of an FKT attempt. This is an argument that if they cannot leave no trace in a closed area, they should not be there.
And even if FKTers can pass through an area without leaving a trace, the sections of trails that are closed now are going to be significantly overgrown and unmaintained, with extensive blowdowns and potentially unmitigable poodle dog brush that infests areas after a fire. Hiking through these areas will be extremely slow. It's not hard to imagine that a record could be lost in these areas alone if your pace slowed to less than 1mph avoiding endless poodle dog bush.
So that leaves us with the dilemma that we have here: do we accept records that take established alternate routes for long standing closures? What if those alternates are shorter than what the previous record holder did? Should FKTers be expected to walk 100% of the PCT even though closed areas where they can cause damage to the trail, and where previous record holders had more favorable conditions before those closures? What about closures that only last for one season but could make the PCT significantly shorter (as Karel did)? Then consider that the PCT may never be closure-free in the future, how will anyone set a legitimate FKT?
I think it's a very dangerous precedent to see Karel claiming the supported FKT with the extensive alternates in 2016. I would rather not future FKTers try to take advantage of closures to get a shorter trail. I also don't see how it will be realistic, going forward, not to accept that some alternates will be necessary given the trend that closures could last a very long time. It would be a shame to see advancement of the FKTs become impossible due to these closures, or at least dubiously accepted by the community by those who claim them. It seems like it's already happened.
i'd like to see a discussion around what eli has brought up. taking some unofficial alternate seems wrong, but so does going through closures.
sure, the trail changes throughout the years, but those reroutes are definitely more in the spirit of the trail than a paved roadwalk around an closure.
staying on the official pct through the closures seems like the truest way to an fkt, but then it could also reflect pretty negatively on the fkt community as being entitled / selfish / above the rules.
perhaps it's best to just turn a blind eye and keep attention away from this unspoken element of the pct fkt? or should the "course" just be considered closed and a new fkt is off the table until all closures are lifted? (or a new definition of what is acceptable / expected is made clear)
Matthias here, I am wondering if it is still an unsupported record attempt if the person who attempt the record caches water along the way..or if people like Anish or Bink did that! An example: I want to attempt the record, is it legit that I cache water before on the trail where I think it might be helpful? And does it still count as an unsupported attempt then?