Tri-State U (MA, CT, NY)

[Cat Skill]

May 6, 2017 18:59:09 GMT -5 Peter Bakwin said:

May 6, 2017 17:07:33 GMT -5 Cat Skill said:

All FKT's start out as "just a run someone did".

Not really. While many routes are "contrived", and therefore could be considered "just a run someone did", many others are defined by the trails or terrain. The Long Trail is an example of the latter - the LT existed as a unit long before someone thought of trying for speed on it. A mountain ascent record would be another example. For a more contrived route, as this one perhaps is, I think one wants to explain why it makes sense as an FKT route (which the OP did to an extent), and then see if it resonates with others over time. I think of something like the UK's Bob Graham Round here - old Bob saw he could link up a mess of hills in a neat loop over 24 hours. It caught on and became a total classic over the years. Will this route become a classic or be forgotten? Can't really say yet. What makes a good FKT route would be a great discussion to have. It's a little like art: you know it when you see it, but everyone has a different opinion.

They are all still arbitrary routes that someone or a group of people have decided is the "right way" or "best way" to go. All trails and routes have been contrived by people. Everyone should have the ability to propose routes that they think others will like and see if it catches on. If not it goes away. I think that telling someone to stick to established fkt's is stifling to a growing community and a growing competitive yet non-race running style.

[neil]

I managed to lower the time to 5:26:52 today (5/28/17). I followed Ben's route exactly but did it clockwise starting at Jug End. My cheapo gps always shortchanges my mileage, but the 7500+ elevation seemed right on. What a brute! The Cedar Brook trail is SWEET! It's like Sage's Ravine only less technical. I am happy to report also that the Bog Trail now has more than 1 board. Actually, the whole thing has boards...nice. My favorite part is when you go over Frissell and get to see the western view after seeing the eastern side all morning. Definitely an adventurous feel.

I took a bottle and a Coke from my wife who was relaxing over at Bash Bish so I guess this counts as supported. Oh well, I bonked really bad after the Cedar Brook trail anyway- the trail was begging to be run.

Here is the Strava:

www.strava.com/activities/1010535685

-Neil Clauson

[sgregor249]

Here's a loop variation with some road running for those who don't own a bike. I didn't go as far north on the STT as I veered off at Mt Alander and took some roads over to the AT at Mt Everett.

www.strava.com/activities/1052362911

[sonny1974]

I just completed the Tri State U. Solo and unsupported. I would never be able to obtain the FKT but I want to support this course. All I have to say is this is a worthy route. Even if you have to stash a bike at one end or run the 3 miles of road (and it could be uphill depending on what direction you run it) Its super technical, Lots of Vertical, and takes some planning to do it unsupported (Not a lot though I think its a worthy course of having an FKT for sure. I have been backpacking the STT and AT since I finished my AT thru hike in '08 and always wanted to try to run the whole U

www.strava.com/activities/1085257242

I chose to run this route from East to West Starting on Jug End RD and ending at Catamount (RTE 23) The reason for this is I parked my car at the Northern Terminus of the STT (RTE 23) and the ride to the start is "mostly" Downhill. I stashed my bike at the beginning and took off. We have had a lot of rain this year and the rocks were very very slippery. I actually ran with poles most of the way, and in all my years of trail running I have never done that. It saved my butt multiple times even if it slowed me down. I stashed water on MT Washington Rd Crossing and treated water the rest of the way. In hindsight I would stash water in the Bash Bish area as well. It took a little effort to treat the water and it was buggy doing it. Not ideal after running 20 hard miles. This is a personal choice of course. I finished in 8:25:56 I know it doesn't challenge the FKT, but hey it was my first solo attempt at something like this and you learn a lot your first time. Plus doing this in July with wet rocks, it was slow and overgrown so that slowed me down as well. But I finished and feel accomplished none the less. Actually ran into a BobCat coming down the ski Slopes !!!

Some thoughts that if anyone reads this feel free to discuss.

1. Brace Mountain should be included in the run, its an additional mile out and back but worth it to see the views and hit another peak.
2.I think the FKT route should use Bear Mtn road and not the Bog trail that goes through the AMC cabin. The reason for this is there are signs that say they don't want people running through the camp without a reservation, these signs may be new and one could say they didn't see them. (I personally think its ridiculous to say someone cant go through there) but it may deter some from going through or make them feel uncomfortable. Using the Bear Mtn Road trail is not any shorter or longer and there is no reason not to go that way. I heard this mentioned in an earlier post as well. But no mention of the signs in any posts ( So maybe they just put them up?)
3. If you choose to run this in the summer the ski slopes are WAY overgrown at Catamount, with really no trail. Some years they mow it, but not yet this year, and it was tick city. This is also where I ran into a Bobcat coming up the trail not even seeing me until we were like 50 feet apart due to the overgrowth. It was cool though. I think running this in spring or fall would be way better timewise for sure!! Some of the weeds were 6 feet high.
4. I also was wondering while running if there was an advantage going one way or the other and any way you slice it its tough. The only thing I can mention by going East to West is you don't have to go up Alander on the North side. Its a beast!! Just going down its a quad buster.

Well there you have it! I wanted to just post some thoughts after this epic run.

[sonny1974]

One more thing! Cedar Brook Trail is the way to go for this run! I agree with all. I have done both the STT and Cedar Brook several times and Cedar Brook is beautiful and way more interesting. It gets you to the same point so I vote for Cedar!

Thanks and happy running!

[David D.]

Did a complete traverse of the South Taconic Trail today (North to South) starting from Catamount Ski Area and ending at the parking lot on Shagroy Road. Wondering if anyone else has done this? Trail was rough and appeared scarcely traveled in the newly constructed southern section. I bonked hard around mile 15 - didn't bring water or filter to drink from and spirits were a bit broken when I realized the trail was quite a bit longer than the 15.7 miles advertised online... It's not!! Hung around the top of Brace to see several paragliders launch and ate handfuls of blueberries on many of the summits... Great run!

From my Strava
Distance: 20.0 miles
Time: 4:45:28
Elevation: 4,850
Max elevation: 2,315

[SVT]

I've added an entry for the Taconic Loop here: fastestknowntime.proboards.com/thread/1480/taconic-loop-challenge-ct-ma

Notes on others' comments:

- The trails on the South Side of Bash Bish Falls have been taken off the DCR & STT maps and- according to the current DCR district manager- will no longer be maintained. The trails are still there and can be traversed, but will likely fall into disrepair fairly soon. Trailheads leading to these from above BB Falls upper lot have been roped off.

- David, the STT needs a separate thread;-) as its a challenging route on its' own!

- Ben- nice job trolling the forum, I wish you'd waited til the Loop post to make the drive out!!

- To give the OP & others a props- the "U"'s been on my mind since I purchased AMC' 2003 MA Trails Guide & Map. Prior to 2015, this was the longest continuous loop on the range & I've long contemplated pressing South on the AT and continuing across Riga Lake to link to the STT as a loop. In 2015 I found TSP maps of possible trail routes through the Rudd Pond area, but it appears NYNJTC had a leg out on it & was already extending the STT to Rudd Pond. Thus the Loop was born.

[gsoutiea]

I did the same "U" loop that Ben recently did yesterday. It is no joke. I did the "U" starting from the Catamount Ski area and ending at Jug Hill Road, then I ran the ~4 miles back to my car to make it a nice loop. The views were fantastic and the terrain rocky and gnarly. The total elevation was just over 8k, which is quite impressive especially for never getting over 1600 ft of elevation. I did it in a little under 8:30, but was taking my time, taking photos, and not pushing the pace. Even so, a sub 6 is quite impressive!! Strava link here: www.strava.com/activities/1195184924/overview

[bennephew]

I managed to lower the FKT to 5:00:59 this past weekend. I took the Bog Trail. I didn't see any signs and the caretaker was perfectly friendly as I ran by. I prefer running east to west, but the climbs up Alander and Cedar Brook to Sunset Rock are long and late in the run, and the descent from Alander is outright abusive. It is also hard to follow the last mile down through Catamount as it winds in and out of the ski slopes. I finished at the parking spot right off of route 23, as Neil did. Running downhill and south on the AT around Bushnell and Brace is wild; the trail is right on the exposed edge of a 1000' drop.

www.strava.com/activities/1263225234/overview