|
|
Post by Bronson Nash on Aug 24, 2016 20:20:41 GMT -5
So what is the current FKT UNSUPPORTED for the CT currently at? Im trying to descide if its even worth compiling all of my info if the record was completely shattered this year
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter Bakwin on Aug 25, 2016 8:22:28 GMT -5
Please post your info! If you did what you said UNSUPPORTED you beat the previous FKT by 2 days (see the first post in this thread).
|
|
|
|
Post by Bronson Nash on Aug 30, 2016 0:29:42 GMT -5
Ive been compiling all of my data on my site. Please forgive my fumblings when it comes to this verification business ive never done a speed run before and its all new to me. I should have paid the money to get a spot so everything would have done for me but Im trying my best. Any advice is welcome whereisbronson.com/colorado-trail/ |
|
|
|
Post by Peter Bakwin on Aug 30, 2016 7:47:48 GMT -5
That's great. The best verification is to write about your experience. Also, unsupported means that you carried everything from start to finish & did not resupply (except water). Is that what you did? Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by Bronson Nash on Aug 30, 2016 10:32:23 GMT -5
Yeah, i think a resupply would have taken way too long. hitchhiking can be unpredictable. also i refused to accept any food from people on trail, i even passed on some edible berries that I saw because I didnt know if that was ok or not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Dre' on Aug 31, 2016 8:52:36 GMT -5
Aborted my NOBO
Too many snow storms for FKT type shelter!
Next year...
Brandon,
During your FKT, did you mail supplies to your above listed resupplies?
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Truhe on Sept 2, 2016 10:41:01 GMT -5
On Aug. 26 - Aug. 28, 2016, Bryan Williams and Eric Truhe set the FKT supported time for the CT Collegiate Peaks Loop (165 miles) of 62 hours and 47 minutes.
They used Garmin and Suunto watches and a SPOT with data points here:
share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=0lsO1xPe7qVIG0fW4mFuT8LarQSF80etq
However, the SPOT is "spotty" as the first day involved heavy cloud cover with snow, so the satellite did not pick up all points. The CT travels on the west and east side of the Collegiate Peaks, connecting at Twin Lakes in the north, and south of Monarch Pass in the south. The CT travels approximately 80 miles on each side of the Collegiate Peaks, for a 165 mile loop.
Bryan and Eric's time smashed the previous FKT for the CT Collegiate Peaks Loop of 77 hours and 4 minutes, set by Eric Truhe on July 21, 2013(unsupported). In 2013, Eric ran the loop clockwise and traveled on the CDT (Continental Divide Trail) for part of the "CT Collegiate Peaks West" trail which at the time was at a lower elevation. However, since 2014, the CT Collegiate Peaks West was completed and has an established trail on the west that runs above treeline for a majority of the distance.
Bryan and Eric started on Fri, Aug. 26, 2016, at 4:50am at Willis Gulch TH (west of Twin Lakes) and ran the CT loop counter clockwise. They finished on Sun, Aug. 28, 2016, at 7:37pm, back at Willis Gulch TH. Total time running was just over 43 hours with approximately 34,000 feet of climbing (according to the Suunto).
Their three day, two night run involved staying at a cabin each night at Princeton hot springs, as that location is roughly in the "middle" of the loop. They received crew support from Eric's father twice on Day 2 (61 miles) and twice on Day 3 (54 miles).
Day 1 (50 miles) was unsupported, with a time of 13 hours, 31 minutes, stopping only once at mile 26 to refill water at a stream. During Bryan and Eric's run, cool temperatures resulted in minimal water consumption, which limited the stop time needed to refill water.
The CT loop is clearly marked, very runnable, with easily accessible crew points. Thus, we expect other parties to attempt the run in the next few years.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Truhe on Sept 3, 2016 15:59:29 GMT -5
Peter, After preliminary review, I'm going to enter a formal challenge to Bronson Hargreaves' record "unsupported FKT" on the CT. Based on the limited times and distances he provides on his website, I question whether Bronson completed the full CT in the time alleged, 8d18h7m. I look forward to Bronson providing more information to clarify the discrepancies.
After reviewing Bronson's site with his reported times and distances on "whereisbronson.com" I note the following: Bronson's Polar file shows 3d13h of travel time for 461km (286miles), it is unclear whether this mileage is all from the CT. Regardless, my analysis comes from the 13 maps Bronson provided. Bronson notes that the 13 map segments are only the first and last part of the CT. He reports the "middle" of the CT was tracked on a Garmin handheld which he will import at a later time.
Specifically, the maps provided indicate he started on Sun, Aug. 14, at 9:23am and traveled until Mon, Aug. 15, at 4:51pm (1d6h30m). During this time he traveled 73 miles from Durango to Molas Pass.
There is then a 5d16h gap of time, and 306 miles of CT, that is not reported. I assume this is the "middle" of the CT he reports he tracked on his Garmin.
The maps pick up again 3 miles east of Hwy 9, north of Breckenridge, on Sun, Aug. 21, with a start time of 8:52am. He travels 10h45m for 24 miles (this mileage does not include the first 3 miles of that segment, nor the 4 mile gap between mile 6 and mile 10, that Bronson's map does not report). He finishes that night at 10:51pm at Kenosha Pass.
There is then a 15h gap of time, and 31 miles of CT, that is not reported.
The maps pick up again 31 miles east of Kenosha Pass, at Rd 68 just south of Bailey. On Mon, Aug. 22, the maps show a start time of 2pm. He travels 13h30m for 37 miles, to the finish.
The map segments provided by Bronson indicate only 133 miles traveled, with a moving time of 53h45m, over a 4 day time period. There are 350 miles of CT not accounted for that Bronson would have had to travel in 5 days to finish within the reported FKT time. That equates to an average of 70 miles per day for those 5 days. I note Bronson took over 30 hours to cover the first 73 miles of the CT.
Bronson's unsupported FKT is only 10 hours slower than Scott Jaime's supported FKT. It is apparent from the times and distances provided by Bronson that he did not run the CT. Thus, for Bronson to finish less than half a day behind Scott's supported FKT, while carrying food and supplies for a week, is miraculous.
I believe Bronson could easily clear up these discrepancies by providing the data on the missing dates and mileage, specifically the 306 miles between Molas Pass and Breckenridge, and the 31 miles from Kenosha Pass to Rd 68. Or at the very least, a detailed report of miles and times covered each day, with start and finish points of each day. Again, I look forward to additional information from Bronson. This is a most impressive unsupported FKT that if verified, would likely stand for years to come.
Eric
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Truhe on Sept 3, 2016 18:28:50 GMT -5
To clarify from my previous post on the challenge to the unsupported FKT:
When I stated "It is apparent from the times and distances provided by Bronson that he did not run the CT," I meant he did not "run" the CT, he "walked."
Thus, it is all the more miraculous that he was only 10 hours slower than Scott's supported FKT, knowing that Scott ran significant portions of the CT.
Eric
|
|
|
|
Post by Peter Bakwin on Sept 3, 2016 20:53:13 GMT -5
Eric, Thanks for your careful analysis. I agree the material presented is inadequate for real verification. I hope Bronson will provide the rest of his GPS data and a detailed trip report. It would be great if he would provide the raw GPS data (.gpx files). These questions after the fact are the reason why it's important to carefully consider verification before you set out to achieve an FKT!
|
|
|
|
Post by Eric Truhe on Sept 5, 2016 9:02:13 GMT -5
John Zahorian posted on July 21, 2016 (see above), that he had completed the CT unsupported in 9d12h32m (July 11-20, 2016). It would be a shame for John's time to go unnoticed because given the discrepancies of Bronson Hargreaves report, John may very well be the true holder of the unsupported FKT on the CT. I look forward to further details and report on John's site (johnzahorian.com).
Eric |
|
|
|
Post by Dr.Dre' on Sept 5, 2016 14:42:06 GMT -5
I Agree w prelimimary evaluation of Bronson FKT. Anyone hiking/running ct FKT has to do about 60+ miles per day. So average 3 mph for 20 hours per day or less time w more running. I think the self-supported ct FKT will drop another 12-24 hours, max. After that, it will require someone who can run 10-30 miles per day and walk fast remainder. This will require a national class ultra runner. Question: when I read Brandon's account of his FKT, it sounded like he dropped off resupplies at several locations. If these were mailed , that fits my understanding of self-supported resupply ethics during an FKT. But, if they're cached somewhere,it violates that ethic (at least according to bike packing racers). If you can cache while claiming "self-supported", that is great but only if that is considerated appropriate by peers. Brandon, if I misunderstood, I apologize! I likely read it wrong. Lastly, Spots can be rented or borrowed. Anyone serious enough to do/claim an FKT should have a device to prove their claim and to improve their safety. John Zahorian posted on July 21, 2016 (see above), that he had completed the CT unsupported in 9d12h32m (July 11-20, 2016). It would be a shame for John's time to go unnoticed because given the discrepancies of Bronson Hargreaves report, John may very well be the true holder of the unsupported FKT on the CT. I look forward to further details and report on John's site (johnzahorian.com).
Eric |
|
|
|
Post by Peter Bakwin on Sept 6, 2016 15:34:53 GMT -5
Somehow I missed Zahorian's trip/post. Thanks for the insightful discussion. In light of these very valid questions, and the paucity of information about Zahorian's and Hargreaves' trips, I have modified the main CT page to reflect the need for further verification. I note here that I always intended this site to be community driven, and this discussion is a good example of that. I view my role as curator, not arbiter of what is or is not the FKT.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonjon on Sept 8, 2016 12:17:22 GMT -5
On 9/2/2016 at 9:40AM, I started the Collegiate Peak Loop from the Collegiate West/Colorado Trail junction K137XL/01_000. I went in the counterclockwise direction and finished the loop on 9/5/2016 at 11:30AM. Total time 73h50m. This was a supported trip.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bronson Nash on Sept 8, 2016 20:28:50 GMT -5
Im glad to see that there is enough interest in this trail for people to challenge reported times. From the beginning the plan was never to hike fast speeds, it was to sleep less. I wanted to hike 20 hours a day and only have seven "sleeps" each lasting 4 hours. With this in mind I knew that I only had to maintain a speed close to 3 MPH (walking pace) Personally I think the record should be a lot lower, but given weather constraints Im unable to give it another go this year.
Before I set off on my hike I tried to research what methods people were using to "prove" their hikes. I did my best and even tried to ask this forum. I used what methods I had at hand without buying new equipment since I got no response from my post. The middle block was recorded on a handheld garmin unit which isnt as accurate. The amount of data points required to record the entire trail would exceed the Polar RCX5s internal memory. I did try to talk to as many people as I could and let them know what I was doing but I only got a few email addresses. Of course I could have done more but as Im sure everyone on here knows, FKT attempts are exhausting. Which brings me to why there was a block of GPX data missing around Kenosha Pass. By that point I was starting to see things that I know were not there and there were times that when I did my morning/night check list I remembered turning on my GPS unit (external from the watch and strapped to my pack) when in fact I did not. The last 50 or so hours felt like a lucid dream and things like checking my location and giving way for bikes on trail (so many around Bailey) became very low priority for my exhausted body.
I understand that these explanations may not be enough for everyone and I understand. Grand statements require grand proof. But if Im being honest I didnt do this for any glory or attention, I did it to test the limitations of my body and mind. I will say that now I know what I can do I have planned a supported run as soon as the snow recedes next summer. I think that with support a time closer to 180 hours is possible. I will be sure to post estimated locations and encourage people to come out to the trail. Hopefully by then there will be a fool proof method of realtime GPS tracking and hopefully it wont cost an arm and a leg to buy.
|
|
