Post by Andrew Hamilton on Aug 6, 2017 19:11:21 GMT -5
I am happy to explain why it is disparaging. It seems pretty obvious to me: "The issue of style is important here. Most climbers and mountaineers would expect that the person going for an FKT (or FA) would lead any roped pitches for example. This has not been followed so far with the women's CA 14ers FKT."
It is disparaging because you mention their times and totally belittle their efforts by leading readers to believe there is some standard that they did not meet. This is absolutely untrue. These are the only women to have ever gone for this record, the standard is whatever they have done, and may one day become more defined. The men's record is at an unbelievable time and it is OBVIOUSLY a different beast than the women's. Stopping to use a rope even once is likely enough to make it impossible to beat Sean's time.
Anyway you are making this way too complicated, especially for something that has never been done before. She is claiming nothing, because she honestly hates all this total BS like this that seems to happen after speed records. So I will claim it for her. I claim nothing to do with climbing and free-soloing or anything like that. But Andrea is the first woman to complete the California 14ers in a single push. She finished in 7 days, 11 hours, and 22 minutes.
Post by Peter Bakwin on Aug 7, 2017 9:01:57 GMT -5
Andrew, Thanks for clarifying. I think I understand our difference here. What I take as being clear about style and stylistic norms, you take as a value judgment. From my perspective, you are reading something in to what I said that is not there. But anyway, since you don't like it, I have removed the part about style above. Style and stylistic norms always come up in the FKT world, and are often a big area of controversy. I could give countless examples. I try to be as clear as I can about these things - part of the intent here is to communicate what was actually done (what style), not just the bare time. I hope you will write a detailed report of what you guys did and your experiences - it sounds like a wonderful & challenging trip.
Post by Andrew Hamilton on Aug 7, 2017 11:20:07 GMT -5
Peter, I think you hit the nail in the head with your assessment that I took your description more as a value judgment than as a description of method. I appreciate you taking the time to address my concerns and make some changes.
I also have issues with the female CA 14ers record. First off, I don't understand the 'self supported accompanied' claim they make. To my understanding, I feel that to claim this record you must not receive help or complete help with navigation and route finding (as the accompanied party, not the female, did this part of the record). I don't know who or how the driving was split up, but there was still help with that (I believe whatever is received, must be clear and concise when claiming a record). For anyone who had done this route, which I have reconned myself in its entirety and navigated myself, lead up and climbed the summit blocks, been on all, climbed all by numerous routes, myself. Heck just reconning this route I can do it in 5days or less in my current shape and knowledge of the route. I would however want help with driving, only, for my personal attempt. This was all stirred as a result of ethics and the lack that I see displayed with this record. I feel the female should be solo and maybe have a Belay buddy for the summit blocks of tbolt and Starlight or along the ridge, but again I feel the record holder and attempter must Lead the entire route an don't rely on the partner for rap set up or leading or rigging anything, not routefinding. If anyone has done the route, they will know it is impossible to get just go out flawlessly with the route at their first crack, let alone at a "speed record", which this is not a speed record and is kind of misrepresented of what women can do!. Kudos for following the route and completing it, as that does show fitness and ability to go day after day... But it is not a speed record, that's a backpacking trip. I mean zero offense by this post, I just want facts to be known, as it makes the next person know what they are up against. (for instance, a solo attempter versus a guided person, makes a difference in the value of a 'record')
Bottom line, I don't think this is self supported. It's a backpacking trip of the 14k peaks in a faster time than most, led by an experienced guy with the route and an accomplished guy in the world of fkts. I do agree she is the first female to do this a one single push, guided.