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Post by Sean Meissner on Sept 11, 2012 15:38:38 GMT -5
That is fantastic, Jason! I tried to follow you over the course of your journey, but your SPOT tracker lost signal at times, making me think that you had abandoned your attempt. This is great news to read!
So did you only sleep for 40 min. total!? Or did you bivy along on the trail at all along the way?
Sleep well for the next week! And eat a lot, too!! Congratulations!
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Post by elinck on Sept 11, 2012 15:43:48 GMT -5
On Saturday, 8 September I left Mowich Lake at 6:15 AM traveling counterclockwise (a compromise for nicer pre-run camping). En route I spaced out and accidentally ran down the St. Andrews Creek trail, adding about 5.4 miles and 1:10 or so. After regaining the Wonderland trail I reached Longmire at around 3:30. Slowing down a bit from there, I hit Box Canyon road at dusk and tromped up to the intersection to Ollalie Creek trail, reaching it at around 9 PM. Here, I promptly fell apart, and having only grabbed a couple of hours of sleep the night before, decided I wasn't going to be able to continue without at least a short nap. I was awoken at least once by the eerie screams of a mountain lion, but didn't leave until the thunderstorm hit directly overhead at around 11 or so, at which point, uncomfortable continuing on into the alpine with lightning risk and getting cold waiting in the rain, I called it a night retreated back to Nickle Creek campground, where I waited out the night and caught a ride from Box Canyon the next morning. In the cool, painless light of the next few days, I've been pretty disappointed in myself for not continuing on at that point, but ce la vie. It was a hell of an adventure anyway. I am hoping to get another stab at the loop, starting more conventionally from Longmire, before the month is out.
Huge congrats to rasjasonvaughn for getting it done. I ran into a few of his pacers and was always amazed he was still at it.
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Post by Sean Meissner on Sept 11, 2012 15:55:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Ethan. I've been anxiously awaiting to hear about your adventure, too! I'm very sorry it didn't go as planned, but adventure runs - especially adventure runs of this nature - rarely do. Very cool you had a hell of an adventure, anyway!
I'm glad you're going back out later this month to get it done!
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Post by elinck on Sept 11, 2012 17:28:42 GMT -5
Thanks Sean -- was inspired hearing about your trip last year when I was doing the Three Sisters Loop and have been scheming ever since. Can't complain about 60+ beautiful miles in the Cascades, though!
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Post by caskew on Sept 12, 2012 19:42:06 GMT -5
My wife, Darla, and I will be taking a shot at the Wonderland Trail on Friday. Starting at Longmire and running clockwise, unsupported. We will report back soon.
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Post by Ras Jason Vaughan on Sept 12, 2012 19:57:41 GMT -5
Thanks so much, Sean. I think I accidentally turned the SPOT off when I leaned against a tree for a sit-n-fuel moment. The only time I actually laid down to sleep was the 40 minutes at my turnaround. Prior to that I had only taken two or three micro naps of two minutes each when I was falling asleep on my feet. I would sit down and prop my head on my hands and go to sleep, so that I would fall over and wake myself up. It's amazing how just a couple of minutes can clear the fog from your mind. After I had a pacer come on a third of the way through my second lap, I took a few slightly longer naps. While the big lightening storm was battering Indian Bar, we were climbing up to Indian Henry's amidst brief squalls and 360 degrees of distant lightening. I slept for 20 minutes leaning against a tree, timed by Allen Skytta. on two or three other occasions I slept for ten minutes. So total I may have slept for as much as three hours out of the 89:35 that I was on the trail. Honestly, I had expected to sleep more, but was able to keep moving without having to. Trey Bailey paced me for the last 20 miles and took some amazing photos. Here's a link to the Facebook album for anyone who wants to see. www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.498003573545228.120726.219000558112199&type=1I'll post a link to my blog when it is ready. Honestly, I am still having trouble wrapping my ahead around the whole project. And thanks Ethan! I'm glad you are going back out after the FKT. Run well!
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Post by bluenortherneagle on Sept 13, 2012 17:51:05 GMT -5
Tomorrow (9.14.12) morning my brother and I will be simultaneously trying to break the unsupported record for the Wonderland trail. Unsupported means food from my backpack, water from streams for the whole route.
Plan is to leave from White River Campground mid-morning returning the following day, hopefully in record time. I will report back, hopefully early next week, on our results and with a GPS track to verify.
John Reese (and David Reese)
;D
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Post by Aaron Sorensen on Sept 14, 2012 23:45:19 GMT -5
Unsupported also means no assistance (pacing each other, help keeping each other awake at night...). Hope the 2 of you are doing this seperate and not doing this all for nothing.
Going at an unsopperted record with someone else is not unsupported.
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Post by Ras Jason Vaughan on Sept 15, 2012 17:46:48 GMT -5
Aaron, "solo" and "unsupported" are not one in the same. Perhaps you'd like to make the point that solo FKT's deserve more respect and perhaps their own listing as a Solo FKT.
But the simple fact is that MANY FKT's are held by teams. Just this summer Ule Steidl and Leor Pantilat made a 2 hour 19 minute improvement on the FKT held by Colin Abercrombie & Leor Pantilat. And the Women's Rim to Rim to Rim FKT was briefly held by Krissy Moehl and Devon Crosby-Helms as a team. Those are just two quick examples. Click through to some of the results. Clearly this site considers unsupported teams to be legitimate.
And compare what the Reese Brothers are doing compared to Killian Jornet's supported FKT on the Tahoe Rim Trail.
John and David are carrying all of their calories from the beginning and are fetching their water from natural sources along the trail.
Killian had a large support crew with fresh pacers constantly switching out, numerous people crowding around to help him at aid stops, and even setting up a tent and sleeping for him to sleep in when he needed rest.
If John hands David part of a Cliff bar, or David says, "Hey let's turn it up a notch on the next downhill," that in no way denigrates their attempt from an unsupported to a supported one.
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Post by Sean Meissner on Sept 15, 2012 20:37:46 GMT -5
I have to reply to rasjasonvaughan, re: Kilian's support crew for the TRT, as I was on said support team.
"Killian had a large support crew" - Yes
"with fresh pacers constantly switching out," - No, we were neither fresh (some of us had raced the previous day, while others were fresh for just the first round of pacing duties) nor were we constantly switching out.
"numerous people crowding around to help him at aid stops," - Sometimes there were numerous people, but really only a few could realistically help him at any one stop.
"and even setting up a tent and sleeping for him to sleep in when he needed rest." - No tents were set up for Kilian. He slept in his sleeping bag under the stars, on the ground the 2 (maybe 3) times he slept.
I agree with your general point of solo vs unsupported, but I just wanted to clarify on the inaccuracies of the example you used of a supported FKT.
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Post by Aaron Sorensen on Sept 15, 2012 20:57:39 GMT -5
I am talking about "UN"-SUPPORTED.
Every example you gave me had to do with "supported" attempts.
Yes the rules don't mention that you have to go solo. However going out together unsupported is a huge advantage over going solo, especially in multi-day attempts.
I honestly think it should be allowed. In my opinion going with someone only means you are only as fast as the slowest person at all times.
There is a means of support with each other though. Sharing the pacing, helping each other stay up throughout the night, and so on.
The only reason I brought it up is that I just don't want to see anyone go out together and not have them get the FKT.
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Post by Jeff List on Sept 15, 2012 21:20:59 GMT -5
The definitions of supported, self-supported, and unsupported for the FKT website are given here: fastestknowntime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readfirst&action=display&thread=19And for "unsupported" it clearly states: "Unsupported also means unaccompanied!" In addition to the reasons already given, having company means that you don't need to worry about carrying as much emergency gear because there's someone there to help you. That is support.
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Post by Ras Jason Vaughan on Sept 15, 2012 23:04:32 GMT -5
Sean, Thanks for correcting me. That must have been amazing being a part of Killian's FKT. I was speaking based on what I recalled of the Killian's Quest episode about it. I have huge Love and Respect for Killian and for everyone who played a role in his FKT, and was in no way trying to misrepresent how it was done. I rewatched the footage and there is NO tent. But there's also a cool part where Killian vaults a Forest Service gate and I can count 7 people running with him. I was just trying to contrast that with two brothers running together.
Aaron, I can only apologize for my inaccuracies. My examples were as poorly chosen as my words. As Jeff shows, I was simply wrong. "Unsupported also means unaccompanied." I'm beginning to figure out why that was labeled "Read This First!"
By all rights then my own attempt doesn't qualify as unsupported. I carried all of my calories and gear, but I did have friends run with me for just under half of the mileage.
But if I apply the rules to David and John, they still seem unsupported to me. They do no have "a dedicated support team that meets you along the way to supply whatever you need," as per the definition of Supported. "Self-supported means that you don't carry everything you need from the start," which they are indeed doing, carrying everything they need from the start. "Unsupported means you have no external support of any kind. Typically, this means that you must carry all your supplies right from the start, except any water that can be obtained along the way from natural sources. This approach has also been termed 'alpine style'." This is what John and David are doing, they are just doing it together. But neither one's presence means that the other can carry less gear or food. Yes, the definition of Unsupported includes the caveat "Unsupported also means unaccompanied," but I take this to mean by people outside of the people making the attempt. If their brother Joe showed up to pace them from Box Canyon to Lake Mowich, he would be accompanying them, hence supporting them.
Also, a strict reading of the definitions could determine anyone carrying a SPOT transponder is supported, "since someone knows about where you are at all times," and you could even carry less emergency gear, as long as you had the bankroll to backup pushing that pricey 911 button.
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Post by Peter Bakwin on Sept 16, 2012 8:40:01 GMT -5
I intended "unaccompanied" to mean not paced. So, in my view a 2-person (or more) trip can be unsupported. But, it's a little tricky because if one person stops part way & gives the other food or gear, or even if the 2 had previously shared gear (tent or whatever), then you could consider the person who continues to have been supported by the one who stops. As always, be clear & detailed about what you did & what happened. Supported & unsupported are really just labels.
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Post by Aaron Sorensen on Sept 16, 2012 14:38:42 GMT -5
Thank you Peter.
the reason I brought this up was that there are 2 groups of two going for this trail together but as unsupported pretty much right now.
My wife, Darla, (from caskew) and John Reese (and David Reese)
I just don't want to see the ones that get the record have it not count.
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