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Post by Brett Maune on Jan 18, 2013 18:50:59 GMT -5
Hi Art,
This topic came up years ago and I am just writing what I remember. I took the existing trail through Tuolumne Meadows and did not cross highway 120.
Other route variants include: I also took the JMT down from Nevada Falls and not the quicker steeper route down the other side of the falls. I recorded my ending time at the big trail mileage sign. To this day I don't know what is considered the true TH at the Yosemite end. There is a Happy Isles sign at the bus stop on the other side of the stream but to me this is just a bus stop. I also recall people mentioning the JMT used to be on the other side of the river in the vicinity of the Devil's Postpile monument. Lastly, trail crews probably slightly alter the trail frequently. There was a minor rerouting north of Forester Pass during the month between my two attempts.
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Post by Art on Jan 21, 2013 10:40:53 GMT -5
I'm only inquiring about seeming nuances in the JMT course because at some point people will start claiming the record by minutes rather than hours and nuances may then matter. In fact, this has already happened. In 2003, Reinhold Metzger claimed the record with 5 days 10 hours. He went back in 2004, after possibly learning of John Rosendahl's 1988 claim of 5 days 7 hrs 50 min, and once again claimed the record in 5 days 7 hrs 45 min. As it turns out the two were not really that close because Reinhold's claim was from Whitney summit, while Rosendahl's claim was from the portal. But at some point, there will be real claims by minutes and an apples to apples comparison may be important. At least one high level ultra runner will be going for the JMT record in summer 2013. I'll let him announce his intensions himself.
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Post by Peter Bakwin on Jan 21, 2013 11:52:22 GMT -5
My view is: (1) You must stay on the trail - no short cutting. (2) The route thru Tuolumne is your choice. I believe the JMT stays south of the road and campground, and that is the shortest route anyway. (3) You must stay on the JMT below Nevada Falls, you may not use the shorter (& much nicer!) Mist Trail. (4) I take the end point at Happy Isles as being where the hiker trail meets the road. If memory serves this is a couple hundred yards past the big mileage sign.
There remains a question about whether a person could use the Mountaineer's Route on Whitney. So far no one has done that, but it certainly could come up since that should be faster. At this point I'd say that tradition dictates using the main trail, but I think someone could argue otherwise.
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Post by Aaron Sorensen on May 27, 2013 15:28:48 GMT -5
Peter,
There are some big accusations you are making as many of the previous and the current record contradict what you wrote.
(2) The route thru Tuolumne is your choice. I believe the JMT stays south of the road and campground, and that is the shortest route anyway.
The other route isn't even on current maps and takes you through parking lots, so there is only one choice.
(3) You must stay on the JMT below Nevada Falls, you may not use the shorter (& much nicer!) Mist Trail.
Brett took the Mist Falls Trail shortcut.
There remains a question about whether a person could use the Mountaineer's Route on Whitney. So far no one has done that, but it certainly could come up since that should be faster. At this point I'd say that tradition dictates using the main trail, but I think someone could argue otherwise.
The JMT ends at the top of Whitney. If it didn't "Trail Crest" would be a pass. No maps show the JMT going down to the portal either. It is just the way you have to go down. The way down is the "Whitney Trail".
So what you are saying is that Brett's record didn't count? So that would leave the Unsupported record to Ian, who also went down Mist Falls.
It seem there has been a lot of disagreeing over the JMT in the past. I just may give it a shot 1 more time someday? I will start (or finish) on top of Whitney and take Mist Falls as almost everyone else has. I just don't want people seeing your post and think the attempt would count.
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Post by Aaron Sorensen on May 27, 2013 15:31:31 GMT -5
Peter, There are some big accusations you are making as many of the previous and the current record contradict what you wrote. (2) The route thru Tuolumne is your choice. I believe the JMT stays south of the road and campground, and that is the shortest route anyway. The other route isn't even on current maps and takes you through parking lots, so there is only one choice. (3) You must stay on the JMT below Nevada Falls, you may not use the shorter (& much nicer!) Mist Trail. Brett took the Mist Falls Trail shortcut. There remains a question about whether a person could use the Mountaineer's Route on Whitney. So far no one has done that, but it certainly could come up since that should be faster. At this point I'd say that tradition dictates using the main trail, but I think someone could argue otherwise. The JMT ends at the top of Whitney. If it didn't "Trail Crest" would be a pass. No maps show the JMT going down to the portal either. It is just the way you have to go down. The way down is the "Whitney Trail". So what you are saying is that Brett's record didn't count? So that would leave the Unsupported record to Ian, who also went down Mist Falls. It seem there has been a lot of disagreeing over the JMT in the past. I just may give it a shot 1 more time someday? I will start (or finish) on top of Whitney and take Mist Falls as almost everyone else has. I just don't want people seeing your post and think the attempt wouldn't count.
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Post by Peter Bakwin on May 27, 2013 16:39:21 GMT -5
Aaron, Not sure what you mean by "accusations". I am giving my opinion. -I didn't recall that Brett had used the Mist Trail. If so, that's a serious breach of protocol in my opinion, since the official route of the JMT clearly goes another (longer) way. Brett claims above that he took the official route, not Mist. I do think a person could make an argument for using the Mist Trail based on the fact that virtually 100% of thru-hikers go that way. Frankly, the official route sucks. -I think we're agreed on Tuolumene. ? -I don't wish to rehash the endless debate about Summit vs. Portal. Both sides have strong and valid positions. If you start on the summit & beat Brett's time to Happy Isles then you will have the FKT from the summit and Brett will still have the FKT from the Portal. PB
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Post by art on May 28, 2013 10:42:58 GMT -5
not to belabor the Portal-Summit controvesy too much further, but it seems to me the issue was single handedly started in 2003 by Reinhold Metzger on his first record attempt (5d 10h from the summit). most earlier records or fast pushes seemed to be timed from the portal, as far back as the 1940's. But because of Reinhold's lack of historical awareness, he decided to start from the summit. Some who came after Reinhold just blindly followed his start point assuming (incorrectly) that's the way it always was.
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Post by Brett Maune on May 30, 2013 13:08:58 GMT -5
I did not take the Mist trail. I followed the JMT below Nevada falls and to my knowledge the entire way. The one thing I wish I had done though was to stop at the road instead of the trail marker sign. I never really thought about the appropriate endpoint beforehand. Fortunately this is pretty inconsequential and probably takes 1 or 2 min? or so to do.
I only started from the Portal because Sue's time started there. Personally I don't have problems with people doing either an unsupported or supported attempt starting from the summit. Unfortunately though if someone does this then it imposes a significant additional logistical burden for future attempts. If an FKT is set starting from the summit then this essentially mandates everyone start from the summit. No one would want the considerable penalty of doing the additional Whitney ascent before the clock even begins unless they couldn't work out the logistics to start at the summit. The nonstandard TH creates an unfortunate situation for FKTs but I don't see there being a good solution. It is what it is. Do what you want and record the times at the Portal (if you start there) and the summit. Or just go southbound...
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Post by art on May 30, 2013 13:33:58 GMT -5
in my opinion, touching the stone bridge at the asphalt road is the best most definitve end point at Happy Isles. it is the most permanent and obvious marker in the area and is where vehicular traffic begins. its only a 1 minute jog from the sign where Brett stopped, so no big deal, until records are broken by seconds.
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Post by Aaron Sorensen on Jun 18, 2013 22:31:14 GMT -5
Thank you Brett and Peter for the input. It's just the bit of info I've been looking for.
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Post by Joseph on Aug 5, 2013 10:31:17 GMT -5
The record has been beaten. Hal Koerner and Mike Wolfe bested it this past weekend. 3 days, 12 hours and 41 minutes. Amazing.
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Post by Brett Maune on Aug 5, 2013 23:23:43 GMT -5
First of all congrats to Hal and Mike for an awesome run—I can’t wait to hear the details. There are those who question the logic and purpose of FKTs. I think pursuits such as these are very important. They inspire us and disrupt the ordinary. Had both of you failed this would have been a Monday just like any other Monday--a Monday quickly forgotten and therefore for all intents and purposes a Monday not lived. But instead you succeeded and today was special. Days like today remind me how wonderful it is to be alive and how we must constantly strive to truly live it to the fullest. Again congrats and thanks.
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Post by greglanctot on Aug 19, 2013 17:58:10 GMT -5
Hi Peter Bakwin,
What are the FKT's from Happy Isle to Whitney Summit?
THanks, Greg
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Post by Peter Bakwin on Aug 19, 2013 21:03:14 GMT -5
Hi Peter Bakwin, What are the FKT's from Happy Isle to Whitney Summit? THanks, Greg Good question. I don't know!
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Post by Greg Lanctot on Aug 22, 2013 21:42:51 GMT -5
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